The Fizz #10: Chevonne Ball's Oregon wine tours bring wine production to the consumer.
In this interview, Chevonne and I talk about starting her business, what sets her tours apart, and her view on inclusivity and growth in the wine industry.
For the Fizz #10, I sat down over Zoom with Chevonne Ball, owner of travel and consulting company Dirty Radish, who took the call in her home in Portland, OR. Chevonne is a person of all trades—she’s worked on the hospitality, consulting, event, and production side of the wine industry. Her talents are wide, she’s incredibly warm, and has maybe the most positive attitude I’ve had the pleasure of witnessing lately. Chevonne was featured in Wine Enthusiast’s 40 Under 40 and was highlighted as one of SevenFifty’s 5 Rising Stars in Portland, OR.
In this interview, we spoke about the process of how Chevonne started her business, what sets her tours apart, and how she works with winemakers. We also touched on inclusivity in the wine industry, her experience working in restaurants, and being a part of a conversation around accessibility and growth.
On a separate note—wow, it’s been ten issues of The Fizz, ten weeks since I started this newsletter. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for subscribing, supporting me and this work. I’ve learned so much from talking to folks for these issues, and it has made me feel more connected to the wine world than I have in a long time. Thank you. If you have an idea for someone who should be featured in an issue, simply reply to this email.
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Margot: I was so excited to hear about the wine tour work you’re doing in Oregon—I used to live in Portland and miss it very much. What about the Oregon winemaking scene is interesting to you?
Chevonne: The Willamette Valley’s proximity to Portland makes it easy—it’s only about a 45 minute drive to get to the first winery. It’s kind of still like the Wild West of wine, especially compared to France. In France, you’re talking about 10th, 11th generation winemakers—here we’re barely in the second generation. Just the youth of that is very exciting. Overall it’s these salt of the earth farming people who just want to put an awesome thing in a bottle and have you enjoy it. The threshold to get into wine can be vast—it’s a bit more relaxed here. It’s like the Beaujolais to Burgundy—Napa to Willamette Valley sort of thing.
M: When you’re in the states, how do you determine where to take people for tours?
C: I have a pretty broad criteria. I typically tend to lean toward wineries that are boutique—under 10k case production per year. I like to go to places that are practicing organic, sustainable farming practices. I say practicing because I don’t necessarily agree with the organic certification. It’s a very expensive undertaking and the rules are very strict. I understand how farming goes—with the rules being as strict as they are, if you have a bad vintage or something is happening in nature, you can’t do something different because it wouldn’t technically be biodynamic or organic. I know the producers enough to know who is practicing, and that’s important to me.
[Learn more about the organic farming certification, and winemakers who eschew it in this Fizz interview with Cara Mockrish of Frenchtown Farms.]
I’m really lucky with these tours—I’ve been friends with these folks for the last decade, I’ve been selling their wine at restaurants, I’ve been the wine buyer purchasing their wines. Our relationships started in a very organic way. It’s like you came to a tour with your friend, I’m your friend, and I happen to be friends with these winemakers and chefs. That’s the experience that you get. I’ve seen other wine tours, and there’s nothing wrong with these tours, but they take you to these huge wineries anyone can walk into. Those folks are drivers—they drive you and drop you off. You do the tasting and they drive to the next location. That’s not what my trips are like.
M: What are the trips that you curate like?
C: I’m not the driver on any of my tours. I’m your host. You’re very well taken care of—there are two people taking care of you. I’ve worked in restaurants for a very long time, but I previously was a pre-school teacher. I love humans, but all we are are blood sugar levels. I surprise people with treats throughout the trip—I know when they need it! [laughs] It’s casual. The first stop is the in-depth. It’s the deep dive into wine—they have a vineyard and a facility. You’re awake, you’re paying attention, you haven’t had any wine yet. It’s usually about two to two and a half hours. I keep the drive between wineries pretty short—about ten to fifteen minutes to the next place. The next place we have a French-style lunch, it’s a long lunch. Still a pretty in-depth tasting. The third stop is the “sip and view”—that’s all you want to do by then! We’re hanging out with winemakers, but it’s more about the sweeping vista and sitting back and enjoying the wine.
M: The producers you work with—are they mostly folks you know? Who have you worked with in the past for tours?
C: I love Evening Land, I worked with them for a hot second. Before I started my business, I was like who needs someone to pop in for a day or two or a weekend? I worked a little at a lot of places. Their tasting room is in their vineyard, under a bunch of evergreen trees and a fire pit—you’re in the vineyard. It’s just so much fun. I love Haden Fig, Evesham Wood out in Eola-Amity Hills, they do a beautiful job with their tastings. Christopher Lindman can really deep dive into wine. We show them their cave, their chickens. I love Beckham Estate—they make their amphorae. The husband is the ceramic teacher in a local high school. They grow the grapes and make the wine in their handmade amphorae. The wines are phenomenal.
M: That does sound magical. The United States wine consumer has been a lot more interested in education lately. How much education do you provide to your customers? Do you tell them about things like wine additions, labor practices?
C: Yeah, 100%. There’s a huge disconnect. Wine has been a part of the culture of France, for example, for so long. There’s a deep understanding. It’s almost guaranteed that if you’re a French person, you or someone you know works in a vineyard or makes wine. It’s a part of the culture. I didn’t grow up drinking wine here. There were jugs at Christmas—maybe. In general, we as consumers are very disconnected from where our food and beverage comes from and what is in it. People want to talk about sulfites all the time—there are more sulfites in a can of Coke. The number one question I get on a wine tour is “how can I not get a hangover?” Well, I tell them that the hangovers they’re getting are partially from wine additives. There’s this misunderstanding that people wouldn’t add anything to wine.
I try to meet people where they are as far as where their education is. You have folks at all areas of understanding. I’ll go as deep as they want to go or keep it as light as they want to be. It’s their time, it’s their tour. I’m pretty educated when it comes to wine, but we’re also right there with the people who make the wine who can really answer all of their questions. I think education is key because it’s going to help you decide what kind of wines you like and why. I think the new consumer really wants to know both about the production of the wine they’re drinking and the story of the people. They want to know who they are. That’s my favorite part—I get to show them who they are.
M: Wine education has a big problem of being very exclusive and stuffy. How does that knowledge play into the work that you do?
C: Wine education is so interesting. There’s a difference between the everyday consumer and someone who wants to know about wine and someone who really wants to get into wine. In the early days in the US, you had to really educate yourself on wine. You had to have the money and access in order to get into it. Now, there’s not an easy way for the everyday consumer to engage in that information, and that’s why with the tours—you’re able to see it. You’re there in the vineyard, you can see the trunks and the grapes, and understand why the soil is important, the roots are important. You move into the production and you can understand how grapes are de-stemmed. For me, the certifications—it’s mostly history and geography. There’s not a lot about the production of wine. There’s a big gap here. The young drinker wants that education. Education as a consumer vs education as someone working in the business are two totally different things.
I don’t think I know a lot about wine in a lot of ways. I worked with Jason Lett of Eyrie Vineyards, for example, that guy knows everything. Dirty Radish as a company I think will move into education, but I’m not sure yet what that looks like.
M: Inclusivity and accessibility is becoming more forefront in the wine space. How do you take that into account in your tours? How do you make sure people feel safe and comfortable during your tours?
C: Hospitality is in my blood. My greatest joy is seeing the little tiny moments of happiness in my guests. The moments of learning, that aha of a taste. I’m really good at reading people when they get uncomfortable or something goes over their head. I think that comes from my years of working in restaurants, my grandmother not speaking English as a first language—my grandma and my mother are from Germany. I was constantly having to translate for her or explain things as a young child. You take all of that experience, the fact that I came into wine as a complete novice, no-one drank wine in my house growing up. The first time I started working at a restaurant with a real wine list, I was 25. Even now, I’m like oh “really, I’m a wine person?” I do pay attention, and I’m listening. I’m watching my guest and making sure they’re comfortable and they understand what the winemaker is trying to say. We always come back to do they like the wine? Are you enjoying yourself? That’s all that matters.
For inclusivity, it’s a tricky conversation to have. Oregon has very few Black people living in it, or people of color. It’s weird to say “why isn’t there more diversity?” when there’s not an opportunity in Oregon. There are definitely people who are ready to bring people in. Wineries do have an opportunity to reach out to those communities more. As far as people feeling included, it’s important to meet them where they are. You have to take that pretension and threshold to entry away.
There’s still opportunities for wineries to open up. That means having their own form of educating consumers and opportunities to include people. The hardest part of coming to work here is there aren’t a lot of places to stay or live. Wineries would offer internships for people of color—one winery reached out to me to help them find interns. I’d ask what they were paying, and people would say “oh this is how it’s always been—interns don’t get paid, that’s just how it is”. That’s how it was! You can’t ask in the middle of a pandemic for people of color who have never been in wineries to work, leave their homes, not have a place to live, have no car to drive, and not make any money. Sounds like slavery to me! Are you insane? You got to go backpack around France in your 20s because a) it was a different time and b) I guarantee your grandmother or auntie so-and-so was sending you money every month. In some of these cases, unfortunately, we don’t have that. There is an opportunity there for wineries to shift, and when it comes to the consumer, they have to start educating folks and not being snooty about it. There are two parts there.
M: You’ve been a wine buyer for some really awesome restaurants. What does a good wine list look like for you?
C: A little something for everybody. I don’t necessarily love Cabernet Sauvignon, it’s not my go-to, but I know what good Cabernet Sauvignon tastes like and what good production is. It’s really about the food, though. You have to listen to your guest, your gut, the chefs. At the end of the day, though, my job as a wine buyer is to educate my staff so they can take that information to the guest and feel confident making recommendations to the guest. Lots of packets, lots of tastings. I was always bringing in sales reps, winemakers, taking people out to the wineries when we could, suggesting good books like The Wine Bible.
When I was a server, I was reading every wine book I could get my hands on. If someone ordered a red wine for dinner and they order a beautiful raw scallop dish to start, I can make the suggestion of splitting a glass of Muscadet. Now they’ve had this paired experience of this scallop and this saline ocean Muscadet and now they’re having an amazing time. It’s bringing a new way of doing things. I can’t do that if I don’t educate myself on the list. I love watching people light up and try something they wouldn’t normally try. It’s an easy threshold—just a half a glass of wine.
M: How’d you decide to start your wine tour business?
C: Unfortunately, I was like most people. I just got really tired of working at restaurants. I loved my time at Le Pigeon, Little Bird. To go back to the inclusivity question, now that I’ve moved out of the restaurant world, I’m realizing just how many micro-agressions I was managing on a daily basis. Looking back, I put up with way too much for way too long. I finally got to this point where I thought I’m not going to make it, something is going to snap, I’m just not happy. For example, pre-Yelp days were so much fun. We’re now in this era of people threatening you with a bad Yelp review. It’s so gross. I would never go to a sushi restaurant and ask for fried chicken, for example. It was really hard and I kept thinking I’m spending 60, 80 hours a week building someone else’s dream. Is this my dream? I lived in France and started managing and I thought I was going in the right direction. I need a full time job, or so I thought. I couldn’t get France out of my mind and I went back for a wedding in 2016 or 17 and came back home and thought “nope”. Why would I continue to be unhappy?
I thought I wanted to be in France. How can I do that? I wrote down three things—go back to school, get married, or start a business. Getting married wasn’t the plan. By that time I was 37 and going back to school didn’t feel right. I decided to start a business. I started thinking about how many people told me my trips to France were amazing and they never had a great experience in France. I sat with this idea—I wonder if people would pay me to take them to France? I didn’t think it would work, honestly. I just made the decision in 2017 to start this business taking people on wine tours, specifically to Beaujolais at first. I knew the experience I wanted them to have. I started making phone calls to people in France—what would this look like? Could you host us? Everyone just came back with a “yes, yes, yes”.
The next thing I knew I had a full trip going to France in June of 2018. That’s where it started. You’d think a smart businesswoman would have started in her own backyard, but I go big! I did the first trip to France and nobody died, so it was very successful [laughs]. When I got that last guest into their car on their way home, I just bawled. Nobody died! I did it! I came back and hustled. I was working anywhere I could get my hands on just to get money. I kept building. I started touring in Willamette Valley and they’ve been successful so far. I had the opportunity in 2020 to do the Assemblage Symposium with Elaine Browne and Julia Comey. Then in February I went to Radical Exchange Resistance Served conference in New Orleans, and that was a game-changer. It was a huge eye-opener for me to keep going. In March, I went to Bev Somm in Napa and I met all sorts of people. Then COVID hit and I wasn’t really sure what I was going to do.
Then George Floyd happened and I got on my social media and started talking. I finally wasn’t working for anyone else so I could speak my mind, and apparently there were some things that needed to be said. Between the whole thing of starting my business, COVID, and my social media platform, it turned into more than I could have possibly imagined.
M: How has COVID impacted your business?
C: I’m still doing tours—right now we’re mid-season. COVID has affected the France trips, though, and my ability to get to France. I’m planning trips for 2022, though, with the hopes that we’ll be back. Aside from Dirty Radish travel, I also do consulting, which I’m thriving on right now. I made wine last year, so I’ll be selling that soon.
M: Whaaaat? What kind of wine did you make?
C: Grant Coulter who makes wine for Flâneur and has his own label Hundred Suns, called me up one day and said hey I have these two tons of Gamay from Jubilee in Eola-Amity, do you want it? I called a couple of friends and said “can I do this?” I called Brianne Day, who I used to work with and who has a custom crush facility, for her advice and she said yes, do it! So, I called Grant and said yeah I’ll do it. Then immediately after, Jason Lett from Eyrie Vineyards called and asked if I wanted to make some wine with him. Jason offered me an apprenticeship to make wine with him, and then he and I would make one barrel of whatever I wanted to make. I chose Pinot Meunier and made a still red wine. It’s in barrel right now. It won’t be ready for quite some time, but I’m very excited.
The Gamay was a bit more hands off than the Pinot Meunier. The Gamay I’ll probably bottle in April and release in July. The Pinot Meunier will be in barrel 12-18 months. I probably won’t release that until late 2022, maybe 2023. I think that Gamay is great fresh and quickly bottled, but I do think there’s something to be said about letting it get into itself, you know? I’m very excited to have had the opportunity to make these wines and do this, but I’m a novice—I know very little when it comes to that hands-on making. There’s so much to learn.
M: I’m so stoked for you! I can’t wait to try them!
C: Yes, me too. I think it’s going to be good.
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Non-profit pairing: Chevonne supports Mudbone Grown, an organization that believes “in creating kinship, fostering cultural pride and community through the cultivation of land ownership, food production, and community building”. Learn more about this important organization here.
You can support Chevonne by heading to her website to book a tour or hire her for consulting support. You can keep up with her next moves (including her upcoming wine releases!) on Instagram.
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