The Fizz #12: Jahdé Marley is a beverage professional, a community builder, and a thought leader deconstructing the wine industry.
In this interview, we talk about community-based wine education, how her relationship with Caribbean food colored her beverage experience, and so much more.
For the Fizz #12, I sat down over Zoom with Jahdé Marley, a wine and spirits specialist. Jahdé is a sommelier, a consultant, an educator, a community organizer, and a clearly incredibly passionate person. Right away, she is incredibly warm and speaks with both level-headed experience and incredible empathy and heart. Jahdé is a dedicated activist, spreading knowledge around wine and spirits history, connecting BIPOC in the alcohol space, and building trusting community in an industry notorious for exclusion and classism.
In our conversation, we talk about getting started in an industry without choosing to participate in official certifying bodies of wine education, how her relationship with Caribbean food colored her experience with wine, how she interacts with and builds her community, and so much more.
I’ve been tuning into Jahdé’s Black Food Folks happy hours and her Instagram Lives, and she has personally contributed to my growth and knowledge around wine and spirits. I highly recommend you turn the Instagram notifications on for this inspiring thought leader.
Margot: I’m curious to hear about your avenue into wine. How did you find yourself in the industry?
Jahdé: I’ve always been in the industry. I got my working papers and said I’m going to work in a restaurant! I really feel like I grew up in hospitality. I started as a prep cook and then started serving. I spent a long time at a diner in the Catskills—that was the best training I could have had because when you’re at a diner, you do everything. I bartended through college and really had a knack for it. I loved the autonomy that you have behind the bar, but you’re still a part of that hospitality blanket. The creativity and working with flavors, I loved it. I had a hard time breaking through into the cocktail sector I wanted to be in, though. I wanted to be creative and on the artisanal side and I would interview and not land anything. Then I realized that sommeliers had certifications.
I could get a certification, and that layered with my experience could provide me access into these rooms I wanted to be in. I loved food, and as a somm, you could work closer with the kitchen. I will say that there’s a lot of talk around whether people should or should not get certified, what certifying bodies they should go through and all of these things. I think it’s really easy to have an opinion when you’re in the industry and you have a network already—there are a lot of jobs that are word of mouth. It’s not like that when you’re trying to break in—it’s hard.
I spent a bunch of money and got the certifications and landed a job. I was one of maybe five people in this large class of 20-30 who was actually in hospitality. The rest were people of means who wanted a summer past-time. There weren’t many of us who took the class and had restaurant experience. That was eye opening—it was a glimpse into the somm community that I was going to enter. There was a gap between working class hospitality babies who grew up in it, and people who grew up with wine and wanted to get in the industry by way of that. That’s a layer of the industry we don’t explore too much, but contributes a lot to classism and hierarchal education in wine.
M: That’s so interesting. Today, we’re in this space where a lot of folks are trying to push back on that certification regime and say hey we actually don’t have to go through the Court of Master Sommeliers or go through the WSET exam. What is your advice for folks who are trying to get into the industry, but don’t want to go through those organizations?
J: There are alternative wine communities that are popping up. I work closely with Industry Sessions and I hold the biggest light for Jirka and James, and I’m also part of the Hue Society. I love both of those organizations because it’s not just education—there’s also a lot of networking that goes along with what they’re doing. A big part of the certification is knowledge, but it’s also being a part of that list. You having access to these folks who may have job offers. The education is just a part of it.
For folks looking to go outside of the established certification bodies, be cognizant of the folks who are running the program you’re hoping to align yourself with and make sure there are resources beyond just the education, the ones to help you with job placement and introductions. Make sure folks aren’t stingy with their resources. It’s more than just grapes and soil types—this is an industry and a business. A big part of why people go around these certification bodies is access to money. The Roots Fund is doing great things—there are people out here getting scholarships who can get you into these programs if money is what is keeping you away.
M: On your website, it says you’re inspired by your Jamaican heritage. How does that heritage and culture play into your wine expertise and your work in the beverage industry?
J: I became a Jamaican citizen this year and I’m really proud of that. It holds a big place in my heart. I started to really take bartending, flavor, and cooking seriously when my brother passed in 2010. He was a very young chef. That was a major point of interaction for us. We were very close—that’s how we engaged. I started to treat cooking as this kind of meditation. I was 20 years old. As I started to hone into Caribbean flavors, because that’s the lineage he and I shared, these scents and flavors were bringing me back. It became very spiritual for me. It became a space where I could feel connected to a culture that I otherwise felt I had drifted away from as I was growing up. It stroked this passion space for me.
That stayed in its own place and my beverage work stayed in its own place. I think that’s because we don’t speak about spirits and food the way we speak about wine and food. When I got into wine, I realized that “what grows together goes together” isn’t just some bullshit pairing advice, it’s literally that these things evolved together. They’re part of the same culture, they’re not separate, there’s this thread. Everywhere where there is food, there’s also a beverage culture—whether alcoholic or not. That realization enabled me to pull my affinity for cooking and my pride for Caribbean flavor into the beverage space. It wasn’t until those two things clicked that I felt whole.
In order for us to be the best people and professionals we can be, we have to be confident in expressing our whole selves. It just so happens that this conversation that I wasn’t bridging over into the beverage side of things enriches it so much, it elevates it. That’s a motivating factor as to why I’m in these alternative education spaces. How many voices are missing just because they lack the confidence? We can all benefit from that. It’s layered.
I have this moment where I was studying in Italy with the Vinitaly International Academy with Ian D’Agata and we were talking about his Italian hometown in Lombardy and this red Moscato grape, and he said that the grape got so popular and the agro-tourism ramped up so much that they had to install a ski lift to move folks about town. He was saying it was great—the town benefited from this surge of industry. At the end of it he said “the most effective way to oppress a people is to keep them ignorant of what only grows in their backyard”. It was like fireworks went off. This agriculture taking place within these communities is not being linked with the final product we’re seeing in our market. There’s a lot of grey area and space for people to hide and get to decide which regions benefit from this line of thought and which are exploited by it and kept in the dark. It was an incredibly significant moment in my education and a moment that propelled my career to where it is now.
M: Wow. That’s very moving, I’m kind of blown away by that quote. This moves into the work you’re doing with Black Food Folks and the happy hours you’re hosting and participating in. Can you tell me about the vision for these events?
J: Black Food Folks just celebrated two years! It’s a hub of joy. There’s a lot of selfless work that goes into building a platform whose sole purpose was to highlight other people. They got a lot of attention after the murder of George Floyd, and so did Black wine professionals in general. I was speaking to my friend who was just fielding all kinds of calls from different outlets, but they were all harping on pain and asking about the difficulties we faced in the industry. Yes, the difficulties are there, but also, you’re speaking to a woman who is 10-15 years in the game, on top of the wine world. She has a lot more to offer than just trauma porn. That conversation really stuck with me—the want and need to share our joy and drive and expertise on top of everything else.
After doing a couple of happy hours with Jackie Summers, I ran into Clay at Hunky Dory and we just spoke about doing a wine segment and so far I’ve only interviewed people that I have a real life connection with, which is so great. It reinforces to me how strong our community is. They’re just so happy and loving and I get great feedback afterward about the need for the space and how comfortable people feel that they don’t have to play into this narrative of a beat down professional. They can just let their rainbow be out and it’s really empowering. We get really deep sometimes, I’m not saying it’s shallow—it’s just a free space to share this passion we have. We study grapes all day, there’s a lot of passion that drives that.
M: That must be so cathartic.
J: It is. It’s also important to show people coming up that joy really is resistance. There are things out there that are really fucked up, and you can easily let them rule you. To decide that you’re going to acknowledge this and align yourself with what you think is right, that you’ll continue to engage and be happy and walk with joy. You don’t have to play into what the media tells you your experience should be.
M: I took a lot out of your last Black Food Folks conversation with Kayla Mensah at Domestique around which food gets highlighted with wine pairings and which food gets left out. I’d love to dig in a bit more around how food colors your relationship with wine.
J: There’s a lot of rebelling against food pairing right now, and I get it, but I also think that it sends the wrong message to up and coming wine professionals. Flavor and color in your palate is important, and the more that you’re equipped with, the more you’re able to help food and wine interact with each other. As much as we can say that we want to be rid of the rigidity and rules around pairing, I don’t think discouraging it is the way to go. Everybody eats. Everybody did not grow up drinking wine, but most people grew up with some kind of culinary identity. You’re able to find different points of interaction and commonality when you can speak to food when someone isn’t just clicking into the wine.
As a restaurant somm, one of my duties was staff education, and I would always lead with food, because that’s what we could all come together around. By sifting through the conversation, you knew which avenue to take and who was clicking with what. It’s important to know that you can describe sumac, a pomegranate, a sour cherry, soursop, underripe passionfruit. You can use all of these things to describe varying levels of citrus. That’s important, and it’s our job as wine professionals. At the end of the day, we’re trying to get these wines from the farmer to the end consumer with as much of that thread intact as possible. We want to get people what they like. I have a decent palate and I know a lot of descriptors, not because I sit there and study a wine, but because I have a palate memory—I eat a lot of different foods and allow them to strike me. It has totally reinforced my ability to communicate with customers and make wine approachable and interesting.
People have a lot to bring to the table. I think that eating different foods inspires you to try different wine regions. Domestic wine was really hard for me until I realized that domestic wines generally pair really well with spiced foods—the warmer, bolder fruit profile I was turned off by, once I paired that with spicier food, they got along real well. That inspired me to try a lot of different wines with my food. They push each other in the explorative space. It’s a good way to learn your own palate and not speak in such definitive terms, but to be open to what you’re tasting.
M: Would you say that it’s our responsibility as consumer facing wine folks to eat a diverse range of foods?
J: I think whether you eat the foods or go to the grocery isle and scratch the produce and sniff it, or you’re opening jars of spices—yes. I think it’s important to have as many tools in your box as possible to communicate with the different populations you’re going to come across. Especially in places like NYC. People come from all over to spend money in your establishment. You should be able to speak to their experience.
M: Absolutely. It’s also important to be able to relate to people and understand where they’re coming from. With tasting notes, for example, it’s so important for me to say hey, whatever you taste in this wine, that’s the correct tasting note. As you’re getting more involved with wine education, I’m curious to hear what you’ve learned. Where do you see things that are working really well? Where do we have room for growth?
J: I’ll champion Industry Sessions—I think it’s so effective. I was speaking with Whitney Pope last night and we touched on how Industry Sessions is teaching us as educators how to present information without being an asshole. You have to be careful with your vocabulary and your attitude and even your facial expressions. When you go to pull out what folks are tasting—to your point, what you taste is what you taste. I’m not going to tell you what you’re tasting. Maybe you’re deferring to the same descriptor each time and we can fine tune it—there’s a way to say it without being patronizing.
A big part for me, how wine educators are communicating with people who are looking up to us and looking to us for education and access, that’s important. Acknowledging as educators, as mentors, when you’re dealing with traditionally marginalized communities, the first thing you have to build up is confidence. We really have to have people understand that they’re accepted as they are, their opinions are valid, they are not going to be embarrassed in front of other people. That’s really important.
M: Absolutely. It’s a whole study of empathy and human connection. It’s a conversation, not a lecture. What brings you the most joy in the work that you do?
J: I love being able to be my whole full self around people. I joke with my partner that coming up through high school, I never went to school, I wasn’t part of any clubs. Now, I’m the president of this [laughs], and I can introduce you to this group of people, and I’m doing so much. It’s because I love this community I’ve found myself in. There’s no defense. I’m not being judged, I feel respected and seen and I can make mistakes and it won’t be the end of anything. That’s empowering! This is really the first time I’ve felt like this in my life and can identify it—that brings me joy. It really motivates me to fight for other people to feel the same way.
M: What’s next on your horizon? Is there anything you’re working on now that you’re excited about?
J: The deeper I get into the supply chain and consulting, the more I want to be involved with agriculture and understanding how we can work in concert. Deprogramming my own understanding of “helping” and “charity” and positioning myself more in community and finding synergy. That’s where my head’s been at. We speak a lot about “decolonizing” and I appreciate that people identify with that term. It’s getting us to have some conversations, but I also don’t think that people understand that you can’t decolonize a product.
We’re not decolonizing wine—wine is a product of colonization. Grapes have traveled with people. When we think about the international grapes—these successful empires had these grapes and planted them everywhere. We can’t decolonize that. We can change the way that we interpret information, and we can change the power dynamic amongst wine professionals versus farmers versus the regions they come from, you can deconolize your thoughts, your language, but we can’t decolonize what’s in a bottle. Language is important and we should use the right language.
M: That’s something I’ve been thinking about since I watched your Instagram Live on Haiti’s rum industry. It’s interesting to think about how we participate in global wine. It has made me think about the wines I drink and how to shine more of a light on wines made domestically.
J: A really big thing for me is also taking into consideration global money exchange. I’m working with Danch & Granger, who is bringing in wines from Serbia, Hungary, Bosnia. Capitalist perception is that those wines should be really cheap—they’re from lesser known areas where the dollar holds a lot of weight. People expect them to be cheap. Those wines aren’t cheap! It takes a while to get here, those producers are paid well. Why should I pay a producer in Serbia any less than I pay a producer in California? Whether I’m changing your life or not, that’s saviorism. It’s saying I don’t have to treat you as well as I treat this person because the dollar is saying you’re not worth what this other person is worth. That’s an onus on us as professionals and buyers. Stop assuming something should be ten dollars just because it’s from a region you don’t know of. If it’s delicious, you pay for it.
M: Absolutely. I had a conversation with someone recently around Georgian wines and how they’re good but so expensive. Okay, but you’ll pay $100 for some French or Italian reds but wine from Eastern Europe or Ethiopia or the Middle East has to be cheap.
J: Yes. I’m learning about co-ops in the late 80s and early 90s and how the EU systemically underpaid these farmers. That doesn’t do a lot to bolster confidence or make you drive for quality, so it put a damper on Greek wine production and the reputation of Greek wine. When you think of wine culture and the folks who went out and championed these grapes—the original colonizers, you know what I mean? You think of Greece. Now all of a sudden, Greek wine is not considered worthy.
One of the books I work with, Eklektikon, has really revived spirit in some of these Greek farmers by championing indigenous varietals and traditional fermentation while also connecting them with global market preferences. It’s very empowering.
M: There’s so much politics in there, absolutely.
J: I’m really excited about what Terra Sancta is doing in Lebanon and Palestine. Especially when we think about colonization, yes, we said we can’t decolonize a product, that’s absolutely true. There are still areas under active occupation and colonization. They deserve our attention and our allyship, and one of the ways to do that is to support these wineries aligning themselves with local farmers. They’re providing these farmers with stable economy. I’m really happy to be working with folks who have that in the center of their heart.
M: Thank you so much for your time. I’m learning so much from you constantly, and I’m really inspired by the way you use your voice. I hope we can cheers in person soon!
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Non-profit pairing: Jahdé supports The Roots Fund, which “was created to nourish and enrich the lives of Black and Indigenous people in the wine community. You can donate to this important organization here.
Support Jahdé by reaching out for her consulting work on her website. Make sure to set those Instagram notifications on for her Instagram Lives, which have been incredibly eye-opening.
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